Talk about viscious. I moved these two to a new tank for more space. I already planned on getting rid of the syns, but before I could he thrashed my firemouth to a pulp.

He is now floating and swirling around my tank, but is still alive. No pectora fins, the rest are shredded too.

Scales are missing as well. poor thing!

I did emergency water change to lower nitrates, and the other readings are perfect. Salted the tank and added melafix.

I may have to put him out of his misery in a day or two if he doesnt get any better, i tried hand feeding him but he just spit it out..

i lightly touched him to get him straight for the pic

R I P that fish has had it get rid now or it will die in the tank

It will make it! fish don't feel pain, so i heard.

LOL R. I. P.

Chief wrote:


I believe fish do feel pain of a sort...although the transmission of pain stimulus and how it is perceived by the brain, and the resulting responses by the fish are quite different from ours....but no less significant, as it indicates an undesirable occurrence that is not beneficial to the fish. There is evidence that fish do go into a state of shock, say, if they are being eaten, and this indicates to me the brain transmitting a sense that what is occurring is undesirable to continued life and function. Of course this is up for continual debate.

The argument over whether fish feel pain has long been a subject of dispute between anglers and animal rights activists.

The research, by a team from the Roslin Institute and the University of Edinburgh, is published in Proceedings B of the Royal Society, the UK's national academy of science.

The researchers, led by Dr Lynne Sneddon, say the "profound behavioral and physiological changes" shown by trout after exposure to noxious substances are comparable to those seen in higher mammals.

They investigated the fish for the presence of nocreceptors, sites that respond to tissue-damaging stimuli.

Multiple sensitivity

The researchers applied mechanical, thermal and chemical stimuli to the heads of anesthetized fish and recorded their neural activity.

Dr Sneddon said: "We found 58 receptors located on the face and head of the trout that responded to at least one of the stimuli.

"Of these, 22 could be classified as nociceptors in that they responded to mechanical pressure and were stimulated when heated above 40 Celsius.

"Eighteen receptors also responded to chemical stimulation and can be defined as polymodal nociceptors."

These polymodal receptors are the first to be found in fish, and resemble those in amphibians, birds and mammals, including humans.

But mechanical thresholds were lower than those found in human skin, for example, perhaps because fish skin is relatively easily damaged.

researchers injected bee venom or acetic acid into the lips of some of the trout, with control groups receiving saline solution injections or simply being handled.

All the fish had been conditioned to feed at a ring in their tank, where they were collected for handling or injection.

Dr Sneddon said: "Anomalous behaviors were exhibited by trout subjected to bee venom and acetic acid.

"Fish demonstrated a 'rocking' motion, strikingly similar to the kind of motion seen in stressed higher vertebrates like mammals.

"The trout injected with the acid were also observed to rub their lips onto the gravel in their tank and on the tank walls. These do not appear to be reflex responses."

The fish injected with venom and acid also took almost three times longer to resume feeding than the control groups.

Dr Sneddon said the team's work "fulfills the criteria for animal pain". Previous work on fish had looked at the elasmobranchs, fish including sharks, skates and rays with cartilaginous skeletons, and at primitive vertebrates like the lamprey.

The Fish Veterinary Society described the research as "an interesting contribution to the debate".

i am not sure if fishes feel pain but that poor firemouth has no
way to survive that thrashing. RIP!

man, I dont know what to do. I want to find a humane way to end it if he doesnt look better tomorrow.

I dunno if its worth waiting out or not, he is in a tank alone, and the syns was still pecking at him while he was floating around the top. I dont know if there is anything left for me to do. I think he may be in shock and is trying to make it, but is struggling.

I would like to know everyones honest opinion.

Euthanize or nurture back to health?? And if nurture, what can I do that I havent already done, or have I done it all? What about food? He wont eat, tried hand feeding and spits it out. I dont think he can go too much longer without food.

the condition is so severe and it doesn't have a chance to survive.
a clove oil is a must.

hey ive seen convicts beat up worse than that by their mate when spawning, tailfin completly gone, and no scales, and it made a full recovery. dont give up just yet, there is still hope! i would give it a day atleast.

Demand wrote:



I fail to understand what is 'LOL,' honestly.



Btw, OP, sorry to hear and see that. Cheer up...I would probably give it a few more hours or maybe a day (like WIN suggested) to observe and most likely euthanize him humanely like you mentioned, and remember these things happen sometimes. Feel good that you're giving your fish the best home possible. We all deal with this kind of thing at some point in our 'fishy' careers.

Win wrote:


appreciate your response. His biggest problem is lack of pectoral fins, he cant manuver at all. How long do you think it would take to improve for him to at least move or eat?

Last I saw he was floating face down on a rock, hes getting stuck to filters intakes and its so sad to watch a fish be pushed by a current. I mean, when I touched him he couldnt even move..poor thing

PAUL wrote:


ive heard of this clove oil. Something about that and vodka right? How do you suggest doing this?

He seems to be worse, stuck on a rock facing down, and was just stuck to a filter intake. Has no strength, cant swim, just floats in a current and ends up where ever the current takes him.

still breathing, and looks at me when I come into the room, kinda like a look oh 'please help!'

At least there is no one there to traumatize him! Hes alone but I knwo hes in misery. Hmm, well I just didnt think such a young fish would beat him so bad. I cant imagine what he would do when he was an adult!

well, hes back at the store now, and I told the guy that hes nuts and practically killed my FM.