bad night...

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pinkyNthebrain2 replied the topic: Re: bad night...

I called the water company and I was told that the new 7.6 is the norm and that the 6.0 that I have had since I moved in is not ever standard and that water is never supposed to be under 7.0 leaving the facility. So next question is my VERY IMPORTANT to me discus tank is at 6.0 and so is my Oscar tank guppy tank and bichir tank. How do I get them to the 7.6 so that this doesn't happen again with my more expensive fish. I am terrified to do water changes now. The cichlids were the first in the process last nite and we stopped when we saw problems... It will kill me if my discus are affected the same way... Any ideas???
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Matt replied the topic: Re: bad night...

If you have access to a food grade storage drum, like a 55g or so, You can fill that with water and use some Seachem Discus Buffer to adjust the pH gradually.

I'd say one water change go from the 6 you're at, to a 6.2, and keep going up by .2 or so with every subsequent water change until they water you're changing is the same pH as your tap water. This will prevent pH shock which is what I'm thinking happened to your Africans.

Discus actually will tolerate a pretty wide band of pH, but you can't change them from 6.0 to 7.6 or we the city water is, all at once. Plus you're going to find with the discus you'll want to store water to dechlorinate it anyway. Just fill the drums add a dechlorinator and let sit for 24 hours with an air stone in it.

cebosound wrote: Waterchange, Waterchange, waterchange... till your knuckles are bleeding. ;) :lol:

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pinkyNthebrain2 replied the topic: Re: bad night...

I dont have access to anything like that... :blink:
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ehall67 replied the topic: Re: bad night...

well I sure hope we think of something

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ehall67 replied the topic: Re: bad night...

Im sure you pet store has some type of buffer .. and walmart will have a storage crate! if you want to like on the edge you can get a large garbage can won't be food grade so we don't know if it does not leach into water but a good one "PROLY" won't but I do not know if I would risk it with such nice fish but might be you only alternative

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Nina_W replied the topic: Re: bad night...

hang on, you tried to increase your ph, and suddenly your fish died?

If that's the case, I spy ammonia as the culprit. Perfectly fine at low levels at a low pH, fairly deadly at a higher pH.

Does your pH kit test any lower than 6? I think you might have undetectably low pH due to no buffering capability in your tank water... which means your cycle never properly formed (low, low pH inhibits growth of the bacteria that turns ammonia into nitrites). Raising the pH suddenly turned the present ammonia toxic.

This is a guess, but definitely something to look at.
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pinkyNthebrain2 replied the topic: Re: bad night...

Hmm something to think about. My kit doesn't test lower than 6... I have an ammonia problem in my discus tank and they are at 6 or possibly lower?? Been having trouble getting it to ballance recently that might be my problem there... I am needing to raise their ph up to my new tap water so I don't have the same problem how much water should I change for them at a time to get their ammonia down and ph up without killing them??
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Nina_W replied the topic: Re: bad night...

for your discus I have no advice. I'm frankly scared of those fish.

For your malawi fish, I'd suggest making some changes to your tank. Add a carbonate-rich substrate (crushed coral) and use limestone rock if you can for decor inside. I'd also suggest you consider, and read about, home-made buffer recipes for cichlids.

The buffer recipe would be an eventual. I'd let the added buffering of the substrate and the rock do it's job first, and I'd closely (very, very closely) keep an eye on your water parameters. It's going to take many water changes, since you'll go through a mini-cycle. Otherwise nitrates should always dictate water changes. To keep my nitrates at less than 20, I change 50% every five days. Most well-stocked african tanks takes as much, or more, water changes.
With the buffers in the tank, your ph should go to around 7, and stay there. After a few weeks of stable, higher ph, then look into those buffering recipes.

Here's one source on the matter, I'm sure you could find more:
www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php

There is some controversy on the matter of using bicarb (or epsom salts, for that matter - let your kH and GH readings guide you). I don't think personal experience counts for everything, but I have had a stable, consistent pH of 8 for a long time with a version of that recipe, and my fish are flourishing.

I'm also pretty sure doing this with your discus would be a recipe for disaster, since they don't like dissolved things in their water (they like the low GH and KH). If I had to venture any suggestion there (oh, crap...) it would be lots of small water changes for them, like 25% every day (and now I suggest you ask a discus person, which I am definitely not!)
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Nina_W replied the topic: Re: bad night...

erm, I wrote that with the thought that your water will probably fluctuate again from the pH of 7.6. I don't trust water parameter swings in municipal water. The buffers inside your tank will help keep things stable.

Either way, many, many, small (15-25%) water changes spaced hours apart will be your best bet. You are going to go through a mini-cycle, almost definitely, so you will have ammonia. Do you have prime on hand? Prime can be a life saver in this situation.
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