Is overstocking ever OK?

  • Brooksie
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Brooksie replied the topic: Re: Is overstocking ever OK?

That tank looks very happy! It appears overstocking is working for you. Damn I couldn't even add 4 Red Hooks in with Red and Jack... Red bit their damn heads off! (Literally)

There is a fine line between sanity and insanity.... Come walk it with me!
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  • The Kenosha Kid
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The Kenosha Kid replied the topic: Re: Is overstocking ever OK?

cebosound wrote: ... and we have a kenosha kid sighting. havent heard from him in a while.


I come & go. :silly:

I assume you don't mind: I've posted your "Largest JD on YouTube" video on a few forums, especially ones where posters refer to them as mid-sized. Seaworld could put that guy in a pool and have people swim with him. :laugh: Unbelievable!
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  • scarhbar
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scarhbar replied the topic: Re: Is overstocking ever OK?

Ya, you can't quite tell Sharyn that her tank HAS to have more nitrates. If you look at it on a large scale, the little fish, eating the big fish carp (haha word play), probably wont crap that out for a little while. By the time she does a water change, the crap hasn't been sitting there long, so therefore it may not have time to completely decompose into lots of nitrates.

That's just a theory, because I have a similar system in a planted tank of mine. of course the plants use most of the crap, but I actually don't do water changes. Only when the water gets a little bit low, do i fill it up. If I do water changes often, algae starts growing like crazy, and the plants start dying, so I don't do many :)

Besides the nitrate thing, here is my take, on overstocking. I honestly don't think it can stunt a fishes growth. I think fish kept in tanks that are too small, have stunted growth, but not over crowded situations. Sometimes it seems like the fish have to grow bigger, in fact, to compete with the other fish in the tank. With limited space, "survival of the fittest kicks" in, and if you want to survive, you gotta be big.

This is not healthy, however. I'm not saying it's alright. But I remember when I was setting up my 125, i had to keep most of my fish in a 29 gallon. They grew MUCH faster in there. Then I moved them to the 55 gallon, and it slowed down, by about half an inch a month. And now they are in the 125, they are growing so slow. I do the same % water changes, same diet, everything the same. I think it's because of what I mentioned above.

But then again, I am only 17, so I come up with totally irrelevant connections :P not sure, but this is a very interesting topic to me!
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cebosound replied the topic: Re: Is overstocking ever OK?

The Kenosha Kid wrote:

cebosound wrote: ... and we have a kenosha kid sighting. havent heard from him in a while.


I come & go. :silly:

I assume you don't mind: I've posted your "Largest JD on YouTube" video on a few forums, especially ones where posters refer to them as mid-sized. Seaworld could put that guy in a pool and have people swim with him. :laugh: Unbelievable!

Ofcourse i don't mind. its good to see ya. :) .... i think i have seen your avatar on other forums, but under a different name (can't remember what usernames). may not have been you. ... anyway, post my JD vids anywhere you would like. :cheer: .... i click your link to my vid and watched just now . it had been awhile. i forgot i had that tank setup with tons of fake plants like that for a while. :lol: ... and one of my longer vids, not sure what i was thinking. :silly: .... but that JD was defo a big boy. :)

My YouTube Channel:http://www.youtube.com/user/cebosound1?blend=1&ob=0
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  • The Kenosha Kid
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The Kenosha Kid replied the topic: Re: Is overstocking ever OK?

scarhbar wrote: Ya, you can't quite tell Sharyn that her tank HAS to have more nitrates.


The reason we say an Oscar needs a minimum of 50 gallons isn't because that's how much space they'd use in the wild (they would use far more); it's the amount of water needed to dilute the nitrates a single fish will produce, their bioload. 7 Oscars x 50 gallons = approximately 350 gallons, to say nothing of all the other fish. My skepticism is also based on a simple extrapolation from trying to keep one Oscar, a Firemouth, and 4 SDs in a 90 gallon tank. I had to do 70% water changes or the nitrate chart would have been blood red. My experience is not uncommon. These fish are notorious/legendary for their ability to pollute a tank.

I don't see how changing the type of food will make a difference. Fish excrete ammonia from their gills. This is converted to nitrites then nitrates by two different kinds of bacteria in the filter. (If my physiology is fishy, someone correct me :P ). Regardless, blood worms aren't the best staple for an Oscar's diet. A quality pellet is.

People who overstock their tanks usually do so via mega water changes several times a week. You're not really "overstocked" if your fish get along and your nitrates stay in the Orange Zone. Perhaps we need to define "overstocked" before we can discuss it. Is there more to it than these two elements?
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jnet replied the topic: Re: Is overstocking ever OK?

that is a good point Kenosha what is overstocked I'm kind of agreeing with Scarhbar also that it is not nessecarily the overcrowding but tank size and water maintenence.

To me overstocked maybe ok for different fish (AND suitable owners who understand) as long as the water stays good and the fish get along; the tank is working.

I think the issue is really overcrowding: This is when the tank is no longer working the water is bad, nitrates off the scale, ammonia still showing, fish are ill, beaten not getting on and aggressive to each other. This tends to happen in a:
)too small a tank where the fish have no where to move or hide, or even turn. AND I have posted many examples of these sorts of tanks from youtube on to this site. With the thought deep in my head, 'So you think your smart!'
)You will also get a bad tank if there are too many aggressive fish in the same tank all trying to establish their spot.
)And you may get issues if a breeding pair forms and needs more space than the tank allows.
)Also its really down to owner to montior and control, the tank, fish and envirment to create the ideal. (Acting as God and not everyone can achieve that.) Many owners are too lazy and get bored of the hobby.

I only upgraded my tank from a 90gal to a 150gal because I like to see my oscars race back and fourth and up and down freely; the tank it else was not failing them in anyway. But my fish have been slow to grow could that be down to them always being in a bigger tank? They are not stunted in anyway just slow. They are 3years and just over 9inch.

I'm living my life, but not necessarily in the right order :)

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  • sharyn
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sharyn replied the topic: Re: Is overstocking ever OK?

I like where this thread has gone jnet and kenosha kid, thinking about what overstocking really is about. The rules of thumb about water volume per fish are very relevant and should be considered, but they dont neccesarily define the concepts of overcrowding or adequate stocking. It does come down to water quality and behaviour. I think you have a better chance of pulling that off in a bigger tank where they have room to move and avoid conflict. I wonder sometimes if it is that my O's have always been in larger groups and with all the little fish there is always movement in the tank - so they are desensitised to other fish moving around them and dont tend to zero in on anything. They honestly NEVER fight or even muck around jaw locking, they just cruise around all day. They dont even fight over food..dont have too, there is plenty of it and because of its high water content it fills their guts.

But if anyone is following this thread with a view to crowding them in.... I really want to stress that if you are going to have a lot of fish in a tank IT IS A HUGE RESPONSIBILITY, TAKES ALOT OF WORK, REQUIRES CONSTANT MONITORING and lets not forget that I bred most of these Oscars - they have always been with each other and me...I did not just throw 7 random O's together and hope for the best. I am not advocating overstocking, just providing food for thought for the issues and getting my learned colleagues opinions.....
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