NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE

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robham7770 replied the topic: Re:Re:NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE

It is probably a temporary situation, but I think each oscar is an individual and reacts differently when changes are made to their environment. The lateral line on a fish is actually a sensory organ, and allows the fish to detect movement, vibration, and electrical impulses in their environment. I think in some cases if a fish has grown accustomed to stimuli from other fish, and has that stimulus removed, it gets confused and fearful. My personal belief is this is why fish can react like they miss their tank mates. In the case of breeding pairs, I think it is very likely a little more complicated. I think your fish will be fine, as long as it is eating, it should get used to the lack of stimulation fairly soon. This is utter speculation on my part, so take it with a grain of salt. ;)
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Lammergeier replied the topic: Re:Re:NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE

You know toom, I'm curious to see the sources of your information because the claim that oscars (let alone Parachromis sp.) are not predominantly solitary is against any pre-existing literature that I have read, and against what is the general consensus not just on this forum, but pretty much every cichlid-keeping forum I am familiar with.

Also, stop making such inaccurate generalisations about what the members on this forum believe about stocking or anything else. At best, it's grossly inaccurate, at worst it's very insulting. I don't know if it's a language barrier or what, but since you've joined here you seem to be going out of your way to irritate long-standing members here and not much else.
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ernie replied the topic: Re:NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE

Well said Lamm, I have been picking up quite antagonistic tone from toon particularly to our American members. I like you hope it is a language issue and nothing more sinister. It looks like we have lost a member today because of it, Hopefully we can all move forward and support our wonderful members and great forum.
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robham7770 replied the topic: Re:Re:NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE

Lammergeier wrote: You know toom, I'm curious to see the sources of your information because the claim that oscars (let alone Parachromis sp.) are not predominantly solitary is against any pre-existing literature that I have read, and against what is the general consensus not just on this forum, but pretty much every cichlid-keeping forum I am familiar with.

Also, stop making such inaccurate generalisations about what the members on this forum believe about stocking or anything else. At best, it's grossly inaccurate, at worst it's very insulting. I don't know if it's a language barrier or what, but since you've joined here you seem to be going out of your way to irritate long-standing members here and not much else.

Settle down lamm, No one here knows what goes on in the mind of our fish. When I re homed my feather fiinn, my oscar exhibited the same behavior as that of the OP fish. I developed a a theory as to why based on what I know about fish. I am probably wrong, but it fits. Toom has also developed his theories about keeping fish based on what he has experienced, and I for the most part agree with his substance, if not his style. I think in the case of Jamals fish there is a physical connection that has been disrupted, and it will just take some time for him to get over it. What say you?
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daddadoo7 replied the topic: Re:NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE

I think they all have different personalities. Some fish sulk if you so much as move a rock.

Ben capone was in a seperate tank for a while but yeah i dont think it would have mattered if he was raised with other fish
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Lammergeier replied the topic: Re:NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE

I am settled Rob. Just as a disclaimer, there's probably a bit of anger in this post, but none of it is directed at you personally.

Anyway, if someone makes a claim that is directly in opposition to a big body of knowledge, it's reasonable to expect that person to back up their claim with some kind of legitimate source of information. If it is only a personal theory it should be stated as such, I think.

Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy for people to have opinions that differ from my own, and am even happier if people (such as yourself) have developed theories as to why their fish may react a certain way. I've done the same thing, and I think I'm in opposition to a few people on here as far as my views on fish intelligence are concerned, for example. Debate is awesome. I don't have any problem with toom expressing different opinions. It's how he is is doing it that is the problem.

Doing all of the above with a clear attitude of superiority and condescension is not ok, and accusing people of being lazy or mistreating their fish if they keep a solo 'wet pet' just to give one example is not only factually incorrect, but downright insulting to regular members on here. That is only one example, and it also isn't touching on the insults he keeps directing towards our US members, or all the (incorrect) assumptions he makes about how the regular members here keep their fish.

I have received multiple complaints from regulars on here about toom's attitude towards themselves and others, and it's easy to see why.

Back on topic, but my best guess would be that Jamal's oscar is reacting to the change in his environment. That said, I sometimes wonder how it comes across to our fish if we remove one of them from the tank. Perhaps they view the net as a big fish predator and removing a fish from their general vicinity makes them freak out that they might get 'eaten' next.
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robham7770 replied the topic: Re:NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE

I am settled Rob. Just as a disclaimer, there's probably a bit of anger in this post, but none of it is directed at you personally.

No worries lamm, my skin is pretty thick, and if you piss me off, we will be friends tomorrow. I think we are on the same page, and both think the OP has a good set up and just upset the balance a bit. My opinion is this is not uncommon when changes are made to a tank, and should pass soon.

Jamal, I would bet money that your fish will be fine and eating out of your hand in a couple of days. If the behavior persists please update us on what is happening. I would post any changes that you notice, but I hope you soon see a typical greedy fat O. Sorry for the derail on your thread.
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Poseidon2.0 replied the topic: Re:NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE

ernie wrote: Well said Lamm, I have been picking up quite antagonistic tone from toon particularly to our American members. I like you hope it is a language issue and nothing more sinister. It looks like we have lost a member today because of it, Hopefully we can all move forward and support our wonderful members and great forum.


There is a lot of pent up assumptions that spill out at the least provocation. Giving voice to stereotypes that are not warranted from the statements made. Unfortunate.
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Rogue_Violetta replied the topic: Re:NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE

I've known Lamm well over a decade, and if there's anyone who likes a good debate, it's her. :P She doesn't hold grudges either, lol, even if some of our debates have led to needing a few days to cool off. Though usually it's both of us thinking the other needs it, lol, and feeling bad. I'm so glad she's actually more blunt than me, lol.

But, back onto the topic at hand. From what I know of O's, they're huge drama queens. So you've probably just got a sulking drama queen at the moment, because things have been changed, and it's oh so traumatic, until they get over it within a few days.

Water changes with Malekith are always full of drama-queen-ness. Oh, the fishmanity of it all!

Keeper of the Food Pellets of Malekith the Never Accursed, Lover of Bubbles and Airstones, and Beloved of the Rogue Violetta.

Throw yourself in- use the wrong words, try different foods, kiss random fish. It's an adventure!
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toom replied the topic: Re:Re:NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE

Lammergeier wrote: You know toom, I'm curious to see the sources of your information because the claim that oscars (let alone Parachromis sp.) are not predominantly solitary is against any pre-existing literature that I have read, and against what is the general consensus not just on this forum, but pretty much every cichlid-keeping forum I am familiar with


Than tell me what is wrong on my statemants and not theorys?

That Astronotus ocellatus is by nature an fish that don't live in shools like several dozen other cichlids also?

That Parachromis are orginaly harem fish where an male dovii was observed with 2 to 3 females?

I know the english Literature that is avaible and maybe the difference to you is that i am also reading different Literature from german, dutch, french i also visited several times asia like Japan, Thailand i visited breeding farms for cichlids and kois.
One of my working places was an aquatic Zoo where i especially worked on Setups with several 1000 gallons including Astronotus, Parachromsis, Cichla, Citrinellum, Arowana, dozen or rare plecos, predatory catfish and many more while i observed countess hours this fish in water volumes far beyond any home aquarium.
I visited countess conventions and are known to people like Jens Gottwald, Ingo Seidel, Otto von Drachenfels, Michael Böttner and many more that are people that are more as a source of knowage for topical fish by doing yearly several Expeditions and breeding projects of fish like Zebrina Pike cichlids, Channa barca, white stingrays.
This people forgot more about fish that you and me know together and sorry to say measured on this man you and me are incompetent.

For the animal abusing point, like i said this is my personal option and i would not change this because you feel personally attacked. I have my reasons that i told before where i also did not telled over an eticly factor. Here the Oscar fish in 240 or 300 Liters and 4 feet is the same as the canary bird in this traditionel small japanese cages. The official option was the bird is fine he sings but later investigations showed the bird was going nuts and had become social uncompatible.


As an example my journys to Thailand and the World famous Chatuchak market. I saw there things that did let me put my hands on my head like flowerhorns 9 to 11 inches permanently housed in 150 Liter tanks just filled up to 3/4 while the gaint hump that was grown by the food that is prepared with growing hormones deformed this animal that it was not able to swim in a streight line, always floating around. The hump was so Big that it would be burned by the tank lights if they filled up the tank more.
There it is a common thing and nobody cares and its there personal option that its ok like it is.

So you see i have reasons to think like i am thinking because i observe more as one point of view. That is also because i am reading english, german, french, spanish and portogese literature and i meet with people counted above or also checked out the hobby in the countrys i visited or i made an trip to visit breeding farms. I want to learn as much as i can and take the best out of it for myself.

Now how many different language literatures you follow?
How many first exp do you have on observing and caring for the fishes you keep at home in bigger Setups that depend to simulate much more there natural environment?
With how many people you arguring around with much more exp as yourself that also put there believes on first hand exp of dozens of years?
How many different variations of different keeping methods had you done by yourself?
How many keepers you know around the Globe from europe to north and south america and asia that are beyond an privat hobby aquarist?

Maybe i am an anyoing Person to debate with but at least i have points and self made exp and also look to alternatives around the world and do not follow an strict commanded manual.

Now this is also nothing personal but it seems you only feel a bit bu**hurt because you see your Agenda in danger you followed for so long. This starts with tank sizes and end to the statement that Nitrate is an evil fish killer while nobody even tells what is also behind Nitrate and the difference of the biology of several species and the absence of an traditionel stomach system.
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