Sexing a Red Devil + Pics

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Lammergeier created the topic: Sexing a Red Devil + Pics

I have a red devil in a 4 x 2, and I named her Daisy, thinking her female as she had no nuchal hump (the name began as a joke due to how placid/timid she is with other fish and it stuck - that, and Daisy's pink). However, since I've had her she's gotten considerably more... uh, robust, and even has the beginnings of a hump. Now I'm not so sure, and the internet hasn't been a great deal of help. No biggie, except I might have named my male RD Daisy :whistle: Thoughts?

As an aside, I'm not sure if she's a pure RD (I"m thinking probably not) however she was wild caught by a university from a feral population that they identified as pure RDs here in Victoria, at a place called Hazelwood Pondage. It's a man-made lake that cools the electrical plant near it. The water is ~24C all year round, and is home to a LOT of cichlids. Interesting place!

Anyway, let me know what you think. She is ~20cm long. Excuse the crappy photo quality - the RD does nothing but hide in her barrel if I put a light on in the tank, and I didn't want to startle her with flash.

Checking out the results of her tank rearranging skills about... a week ago, give or take. I had those plants perfectly placed in that tank for almost 5 minutes! :laugh:


Looking smug as always:


This is an earlier pic, taken not long after I brought Daisy home after she served her time as my buddy in the fish lab I work/study at, to live the rest of her days in tank-rearranging comfort. Her colours are coming in a lot more these days - and she no longer is able to fit in that pipe she came home with (it was her main hidey hole in the lab).
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Rocksor replied the topic: Sexing a Red Devil + Pics

she could be a hybrid cichlid many central americans can mix and produce offspring.

Vent her, there are a few central american cichlids where females get a nuchal hump.

o> is a male
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Lammergeier replied the topic: Sexing a Red Devil + Pics

Thanks for the info. If I can't contain my curiosity I'll use that method, but an educated guess from the pictures would be fine.

Hmm, this is interesting: Apparently the cichlids in Hazelwood are: Hybrid labeotropheus/pseudotropheus, Tilapia mariae, amphilophus labiatus (no amphilophus citrinellus apparently), convicts and blue acaras. Fewer species than I thought!

The source is a journal paper review - look up "Review of the impacts of introduced ornamental fish species that have established wild populations in Australia" by RM McDowall and NA Moore if you want to read up on all the feral populations of cichlids Australia has these days.

Edit: It would be exceedingly rare for African cichlids to successfully hybridise with Americans, so realistically, if she is a hybrid - it's either RD x convict or RD x blue acara, according to the info I've found on Hazelwood. Also, the other thing worth mentioning is that she was one of 4 RDs brought down to the fish lab I'm at, and was the largest. The other 3 are all smaller and have the big lips like this: www.tangledupincichlids.com/images/labiat3.jpg or this img818.imageshack.us/img818/3944/dsc0005eh.jpg
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Darth Nandopsis replied the topic: Sexing a Red Devil + Pics

Unsure of sex, but that fish is a hybrid.

African cichlids can freely hybridize w/ other Africans (Rift Lake sp.), but cannot hybridize w/ CA/SA cichlids. Unsure of riverine species x CA, but not thinking that's possible either.

Interesting article I found on hybrids from Sydney Aquarium (I agree w/ most of it, but there are no "hybrid" Discus, as stated in article, only color morphs & line strains.) Hybrids are mixes of 2 completely different species.

www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-hybrids.htm

THOSE WHO REFUSE KNOWLEDGE ARE DOOMED TO FAIL.

WATER CHANGES ARE THE LIFEBLOOD OF THIS HOBBY. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE SO OR SIMPLY DON'T FEEL LIKE DOING THEM, RE-HOME YOUR FISH, SELL YOUR AQUARIUM & FIND ANOTHER HOBBY, AS YOU WILL FAIL UTTERLY, COMPLETELY, & MISERABLY.
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Lammergeier replied the topic: Sexing a Red Devil + Pics

A hybrid with what, I wonder? I'll probably never know, not that it matters greatly as I don't intend to breed or sell him/her.

Thanks for the article - that was an interesting read.

Edit: Considering the source of the info I found was 6 years old, I'd hazard a guess and assume that Midas cichlids have gotten in there between then and now, and that she's a midevil maybe.
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MetalHead88 replied the topic: Sexing a Red Devil + Pics

this is pretty cool actually. after a bit of research i found the lake that this fish was caught from. its near a power plant and water is a solid temperate for cichlids. since fish here are from people dumping them in from their aquarium there is no nativel cichlid habitat there.... which makes determining what it is that much harder. it could be anything.

in my opinion it loos like a devil x festae
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tehmole replied the topic: Sexing a Red Devil + Pics

MetalHead88 wrote: this is pretty cool actually. after a bit of research i found the lake that this fish was caught from. its near a power plant and water is a solid temperate for cichlids. since fish here are from people dumping them in from their aquarium there is no nativel cichlid habitat there.... which makes determining what it is that much harder. it could be anything.

in my opinion it loos like a devil x festae


x2 on the red terror ... def see the color + shape ....
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Lammergeier replied the topic: Sexing a Red Devil + Pics

I just looked up red terrors, and... yeah I can see why you're thinking that! :laugh:

How I got her is a long story, but if you're interested (I'm dying to type this up):

I'm a science honours student in evolutionary ecology, and for my project this year I'm looking into possible selective advantages of colour pattern asymmetry in wild-type male guppies (we use guppies for animal behaviour experiments as they're a great model organism), with one idea being that they have an advantage compared to symmetrical males because one side is more camouflaged than the other, so they could continue courting females when a predator is around by facing the dull side to the predator, conspicuous side to the female.

Anyway, my project is a continuation of one I did last year where I used a realistic fishing lure as a predator model. To consolidate the results/get stronger results - I needed to use a live, large fish, which is where the red devils come in. I was given 4 of these red devils from the other uni that were wild caught from Hazelwood (they have 100s of them) for my project. Daisy was one of them and I have 3 others still in the lab. This would have been in late Jan/early Feb.

The experiment is purely observational - the exp. tank is divided into two partitions with clear glass between them, so the guppies can see the 'predator' but the 'predator' can't get to the guppies. I ran a pilot with Daisy as she was the largest, and the calmest (I was handfeeding her within a few days of getting her). It... didn't work. She was absolutely terrified of the guppies. One female guppy tapped the glass slightly (trying to get to food I was giving to Daisy) and Daisy got so scared of it that she hid in the corner of her tank for 2 hours. The other red devils were fine with the pilot, and I'm going ahead with the experiment with the 2nd largest - it was just her. I put her back into her main tank (each RD has their own 55 gal tank in the lab).

After a couple of months passed she'd become my little lab buddy. She'd greet me when I went into the lab and follow me around her tank, and when I was bored I'd sit there and she'd swim up to my hand and stuff... I couldn't use her for my experiment, so I got a second hand 4 x 2 tank, got it set up, got the necessary permissions and brought her home. She is the most passive RD (or RD hybrid) that I've ever heard of. In a rush to clear out the tanks for the RDs we were unable to catch 2 guppies in Daisy's lab tank. When I took her home months later, in that tank the 2 original guppies were still there, and they had ~10 fry.

So yeah, that's how I got a RD, and how I got into keeping cichlids :blush:
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MetalHead88 replied the topic: Sexing a Red Devil + Pics

thats a pretty awesome story. thanks for sharing.

sounds like youve got quite a fish here. im curious how it'll look as it ages. that fish looks mean haha.
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Lammergeier replied the topic: Sexing a Red Devil + Pics

haha, she does look a little mean, but I haven't had so much as an accidental 'I thought your finger was food' nip from her yet. She'll never have tank-mates though. Either she'd get bullied (likely, imo), or she might revert to type and decimate whatever's put in there with her - unless it's guppies, it seems (but no, I'm not putting guppies in with her either :silly: )
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