Cannister Hack: stringing two together

  • Posts: 597
  • Thank you received: 18

Sosban Fach replied the topic: Re: Cannister Hack: stringing two together

By adding the husk between your normal canister inlet and the tank you are effectivley adding a preassure chamber into your circuit. This will increase the load on the canisters drive train, by how much I havent the foggiest.

I would not recommend this as a permanent fixture, as it will reduce the life of your impeller, bearings and seals. The motor itself is unlikley to burn out, on the grounds that motors are useually spec ed to a minamun of 150% torque requirement on start up. Then has additional safety factor ontop of that, but the service factor would be relativley low (service factor how long it will run before it fails due to wear). If it can provide the required flow to pull the water through the husk then it may run a little hot, but should be fine for the short term.

The bearings and the internal seals will be rated to the motor spec on the grounds that it shouldnt be running on a constant start up torque requirement (150% from normal torque requirement). They will be rated to a lower preassure and therefore lower service factor than the motor (service factors are useually quite low on commercial products to start with).

The flow will be reduced by the preassure chamber, the husks powerhead and media. If I was you I would run with an empty husk first, check the difference in flow rate (if it flows at all). If your happy with the flow the add media until you see a siginifcant reduction in your output flow.

Any reduction in flow is an indication of increased load on your drive train, how far you take it is up to you. Good luck!
#263149

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Nina_W
  • Nina_W's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Waterchange Warrior
  • Posts: 7765
  • Thank you received: 345

Nina_W replied the topic: Re: Cannister Hack: stringing two together

starting with a completely empty husk is a good idea - thank you, Sosban.

I've taken out as much of the husks motor as I can and still have a watertight seal.

I've also found that this has been tried by others, but unfortunately they don't follow up with results (sigh)


I know that you should never throttle the incoming water flow to a pump, so what I need to check today is whether the working cannister pushes water into itself, or pulls water after it has gone through the media. If it pushes, (and I hope so) then the cannister will recieve water first, then through the husk and back. If it pulls... well, I'll try every configuration and see.

20 September the new filter appears. So this adaptation just has to keep things ok until then.
#263181

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 11056
  • Thank you received: 877

Rocksor replied the topic: Re: Cannister Hack: stringing two together

You will know if it pulls or pushes water based on where the coarse filter is recommended. If the coarse filter is on top, then it pushes. If the coarse filter is recommended on the bottom, then it pulls the water through the media.

My guess is that is pulls through all the media first.
#263328

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Nina_W
  • Nina_W's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Waterchange Warrior
  • Posts: 7765
  • Thank you received: 345

Nina_W replied the topic: Re: Cannister Hack: stringing two together

It pulls. This makes matters a smidge more complex. Ah, we shall see how this pans out. I need a few bricks to get the one standing stably, at a good height.
#263333

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Nina_W
  • Nina_W's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Waterchange Warrior
  • Posts: 7765
  • Thank you received: 345

Nina_W replied the topic: Re: Cannister Hack: stringing two together

still no bricks, and I don't want to try this with a 'floating' cannister, so it has to wait a bit.
#263995

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 11056
  • Thank you received: 877

Rocksor replied the topic: Re: Cannister Hack: stringing two together

Make bricks?
#264005

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Nina_W
  • Nina_W's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Waterchange Warrior
  • Posts: 7765
  • Thank you received: 345

Nina_W replied the topic: Re: Cannister Hack: stringing two together

Rocksor wrote: Make bricks?


well, we're out of clay as well, and the kiln will take hours to start up :laugh:

No, no, just taking a bit longer than I'd hoped, is all :)
#264016

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • ehall67
  • ehall67's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Ohio Cichlid Association Chairmen
  • Posts: 15869
  • Thank you received: 439

ehall67 replied the topic: Re: Cannister Hack: stringing two together

I was hoping to see you had great success with this today when I seen some new posts on it !! still anxious to see the results

The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals


#264017

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 11735
  • Thank you received: 297

cebosound replied the topic: Re: Cannister Hack: stringing two together

yeah, i was kind of looking forward to seeing this project get off the ground also.

My YouTube Channel:http://www.youtube.com/user/cebosound1?blend=1&ob=0
#264217

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Nina_W
  • Nina_W's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Waterchange Warrior
  • Posts: 7765
  • Thank you received: 345

Nina_W replied the topic: Re: Cannister Hack: stringing two together result

I just spent about half an hour writing up the results and now it's gone.


Anyway, here we go again.

TLDR version: it works, but it cuts flow rate in half.

The working cannister is a dophin 1000 - rated for 900 liters per hour. With biomedia (ceramic rings and scrubbies), and a few years of experience it runs at about 700 liters per hour (measured and rounded to the nearest 100 liters per hour by a project Justin did in his first year, so the accuracy is... well, ballpark).

First I connected up the husk to the dophin, water goes from the tank, into the husk, into the dophin, to the tank. This means that the pump is situated just before the final push up to the tank. The husk was empty, and placed about 20cms above the dophin with a pile of bricks.

The husk was completely empty, and I removed the impeller and impeller enclosure. Starting the siphon into the husk was easy, one long, slow push on the button and off we went. I waited for it to be completely full before doing anything else. Starting the siphon into the dophin... not so easy. But eventually it went. Once both were filled I turned on the pump...

moment of truth!

it works! I measured about 600 liters per hour flow rate. So some loss, but nothing deadly.

Then I emptied everything (and here the 'splash Nina with water, she loves that' started - thank you, filters :huh: ) and connected it up the other way around - tank to dophin to husk to tank, with the dophin positioned higher up. This did not work at all. No way. Again the middle pipe was the hardest to get siphoning, but even with everything full of water, and everything checked, double checked, and with help from me sucking on various pipes, nothing ran. You hear the motor, you hear water moving, but it simply doesn't get to the tank.

So, so far so good - time to try it with filter media. In my media baskets for the husk I placed ceramic rings and a few stray bioballs. At first, I didn't empty my cannsiters, but this made start up impossible, so I emptied the lot, and got it going. It pumps, but the flow rate is about 300 liters per hour.

In my setup, this is far too little.

In conclusion, when you have flow rate to spare, this does seem to be a viable way to increase your filter's media capacity, taking into consideration the effort it will take to start it up each time. This is not funny, normally cheaper cannisters can be a pain. Strung together... yeah.

Perhaps this double-barreled cannister design will be best suited to a DIY made to function this way, and not simply attaching two together.

In my case, I'm worried about oxygenation levels in the cannister due to low flow rates, and I'd rather have more flow rate in this instance. But surely an interesting experiment.
#264311

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Big-KenDRACO
Time to create page: 0.092 seconds